Posted by Cheesehead. on Tue, Feb 14, 2012, at 9:29 PM:
Well tonight was the last night of games before they seed the district. What's your seeding look like?
1.Charleston
2.Kennett
3.Doniphan
4.Caruthersville
5.NMCC
6.Bloomfield
7.Twin Rivers
8.East Prairie
Wish they would have waited another week because Cville still plays Doniphan and NMCC but it is what it is. Either way you look at it, you will have to get past Charleston.
Replies (42)
By far the toughest district in the state of Missouri! From 1 down to 7, this is very tough district. I do not see any upsets with the 1, 2, or 3 seed but the 4-5 game will be very close in my opinion.
-- Posted by exzalmanian on Tue, Feb 14, 2012, at 9:49 PM
Where does Malden fall in your seeds.....there are 9 teams so the bottom 2 seeds will have to have a "play-in" game
-- Posted by birdfan on Tue, Feb 14, 2012, at 10:29 PM
I think Cheesehead has it right for the first 5 seeds. Malden should be 6th because they've beaten Bloomfield twice, then Bloomfield, Twin Rivers, and EP.
Also, Charleston's loss tonight will give the other top seeds a confidence boost. This district is no longer the slam dunk for the Jays that most of us thought it was before.
-- Posted by Preacher Man Fan on Tue, Feb 14, 2012, at 11:00 PM
It was never a slam dunk for the Jays. The X Factor will be Greg Tucker; if his injury is healed enough for him to play his game, then the Jays will be on their game. With him being limited, a dimension to the Jays' game disappears as was evident in the Cape Central game.
-- Posted by birdfan on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 7:07 AM
1 Charleston
2 Caruthersville
3 Kennett
4 Doniphan
5 New Madrid
6 Malden
7 Twin Rivers
8 Bloomfield
9 East Prairie
Two three and four seed could go either way. The four seed will suck big time having to play New Madrid on tuesday and Charleston on thursday to get to play for a championship on friday.
-- Posted by mule1993 on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 7:30 AM
Cheesehead...I would flip your #2 and #3 choices and give the #2 to Doniphan. Besides being an admitted Doniphan fan, here's my reasoning why..a common opponent this year was Portageville.(correct me if I'm wrong)Portageville wins in Kennett by 13, Kennett wins at the BCT by 3, then Kennett beat Portageville again at the Bootheel Conference Tourney by 1. Doniphan lost a 3 point overtime game to Portageville at the BCT and a 3 point game to Kennett on their home court. There are no more regular season games to go by so I suggest there are not that many differences between these three teams.
Doniphan's season record is now 20-3, 5-1 against district foes. Kennett's season record is 15-8, 6-2 against district foes.
Before last nights game Doniphan was a "shoe-in" for the #2 seed. So the question remains, "should a 3 point win on their home court against a top ranked team propel Kennett into the top 10 in rankings"...and..."should a 3 point away game loss warrant Doniphan being seeded 3 or 4".
As for Caruthersville..again, before last nights game they were considered (by most folks) as the #4 seed. They've lost to Kennett and have not played Doniphan yet, so I don't see moving them beyond that #4 seed based on a game they weren't involved in.
Records were taken from Maxpreps. Please correct me if they are wrong.
-- Posted by Wesman100 on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 8:28 AM
I totally forgot about Malden to be honest with you birdfan. I think seeding should be done after you play all district opponents.
Wesman100- A win is a win, no matter if it's 3 points or 20 points. Fact is Kennett beat Doniphan. As far as records go, Kennett has played a tough schedule compared to Doniphan. The Dons would have lost several more games if they played Kennett's schedule. In reality, seeding don't matter, you have to go through Charleston any way you look at it, plus no games are give me's prolly other the the 1v8 seed. Should be a very competitive district this year. Let's see if anyone can pull the upset and beat Charleston this year.
-- Posted by Cheesehead. on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 8:35 AM
When does this district seed?
-- Posted by Larry Doby on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 8:38 AM
Only difference in 2 or 3 seed is what color uniforms they wear and what bench they sit on in the semi finals. That is barring a major upset in the first round. It's not like baseball where the higher seed is the home team.
-- Posted by 6+4+3=2 on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 8:38 AM
They seed today, Larry.
-- Posted by I.P. Freely on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 8:40 AM
However, Malden is playing awful well right now so the 2,3 seed battle could be interesting. If Malden is the 6 seed. Twin Rivers and Bloomfield wont lay over and die on their opponent either. Haven't seen East Prairie play this season, so don't really know what their chances are. But I do think none of the top seeds want to play Malden in the first round right now.
-- Posted by 6+4+3=2 on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 8:46 AM
I don't really have a problem with when the seed meeting is held. Really because of the fact there is no rule stating you have to play your district opponents during the regular season. All of the coaches and AD know the week in which the seeding meetings are to be held so its up to each school to schedule when they play district opponents. Before or after the seed meeting or not at all.
-- Posted by I.P. Freely on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 8:47 AM
Cheesehead..if "a win is a win" then you would have to give Doniphan the nod based upon their better record alone. As for strength of schedule, that has been cussed and discussed on here.."conjecture"..an unproven opinion or theory!
-- Posted by Wesman100 on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 9:31 AM
Since Charleston plays at Doniphan next Tuesday, would make it difficult to have a seed meeting a few days before the district tournament starts. Remember, this is districts for girls and boys. Plans must be made and waiting till the 11th hour to make those plans often creates a chaotic situation. Schools do have other things going on besides a basketball district tournament.
-- Posted by birdfan on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 9:35 AM
If we are going by record, Sikeston would have received the one seed in Class 4. It is about how a team is doing currently, usually coaches will place some weight on district record, and let's be honest, a lot of it is determined by who a coach wants to play in the first or second round. Let's assume Malden is guaranteed the six. The Malden coach will be fair in seeding to a degree but they will probably vote for the team they most want to play out of Doniphan, Kennett, and Caruthersville (and maybe NMCC) to get the three. Same with Bloomfield at the seven. That determines seeding as much as anything. Just let it happen.
-- Posted by sideline starter on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 9:38 AM
Strength of schedule is not unproven in this case. Doniphan has not played the same schedule as Kennett, Caruthersville, or NMCC.
-- Posted by GSP on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 9:39 AM
And I don't mean that is calling out the Malden coach. I don't know their process. I was just using that as a hypothetical example.
-- Posted by sideline starter on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 9:39 AM
Having seen last night's game between Charleston and Central, Tucker's injury may have been a non-factor. Jamaul Gray's injury in the second quarter WAS the factor. He usually is good for about 10-12 points. Had 16, but was unable to be effective due to crashing into the Central bench b4 intermission.
-- Posted by vincebrown on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 9:43 AM
I wasn't going by record alone. I was considering common foes.
If the "win is a win" theory was used..wouldn't that seed NMCC ahead of Kennett due to the 57-45 win by NMCC on Feb 7th?
-- Posted by Wesman100 on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 9:45 AM
Sideline you are correct. Coaches usually run over many scenerios in their head before seed meetings for possible matchups. Most conferences and I think even MSHSAA allows the option for a seeding to get thrown out if the majority feels the coach seeded way to out of line, never seen it happen but I think its an option. I personally think the world needs to be ran by the oddsmakers in Vegas, they can accurately predict just about anything in the world of sports. So hire them to set the seeds, spreads, and over/unders! LOL
-- Posted by 6+4+3=2 on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 9:45 AM
GSP..aren't we rehashing an old subject about schedules. Kennett, Caruthersville, or NMCC has not played West Plains, Springfield, Mountain grove or any teams west of us either. Nor do they play teams around Kansas City or Hannibal. It's just not going to happen..it's called Logistics!!!!!
-- Posted by Wesman100 on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 9:50 AM
Wesman - That's why NMCC is the dark horse in this whole thing.
-- Posted by I.P. Freely on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 9:51 AM
6+4+3=2 ...I like your outlook on this. All of our opinions here doesn't matter. Just something to keep us occupied this morning...hahahahaha
-- Posted by Wesman100 on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 9:52 AM
Hey, Vince.....not attempting to make excuses of any kind as Cape played an overall superior game to the Jays. However, Tucker's injury had to play into the equation....if you've followed the Jays, as I know you have, think of how many points Tucker gets from the charity stripe every game; he gets those by dribble penetration and drawing fouls...how many times did you see that dribble penetration, last night? How many times did Tucker get to the charity stripe? And, when Tucker is on his game, he raises the level of everyone else by getting them open looks, both inside and outside, neither of which occurred, last night.
I agree that Jamaul's injury slowed him considerably; that's when Cape took control. But, again, a healthy Tucker means a different game for the Jays.
Again, I'm not losing sight of the fact that Cape Central did what they needed to do to win the game and simply outplayed the Jays.
-- Posted by birdfan on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 9:54 AM
I.P. Freely ...that's why I believe you have to take everything into consideration. Common foes, season record, district records, head to head competition, even strength of schedule.
-- Posted by Wesman100 on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 9:57 AM
Another "common foe" example would be Doniphan, NMCC and Kennett.
Dons win by 16 in New Madrid, NMCC wins by 12 in Kennett, Kennett wins against Doniphan by 3 in Kennett.
Between these three teams Doniphan has the largest margin of wins and the narrowest of defeats.
Does this example make Kennett the better of the three teams? No..that's why I take a lot of things into considerationin in my arguement, not just head to head.
-- Posted by Wesman100 on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 10:31 AM
I give Kennett and Caruthersville all the respect in the world. I just don't believe a small margin of victory on your home court should be reason to outweigh all other considerations. I'm an admitted Dons fan so I am biased..a Kennett fan will be biased toward their team..and so on.
Again, we're just spending time here this morning. In a few weeks it will all be decided and we will all try to figure out what to talk about on here! hahaha
-- Posted by Wesman100 on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 10:38 AM
Common opponent: Kennett beat Bluff by 15. Doniphan lost to them a couple of days later by eight.
-- Posted by sideline starter on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 10:44 AM
I agree with every one so far. This argument could go on till the champion is crowned. Just one little bit of knowledge, Kennett has won 12 strait games on the Bloomfield court in the past three years.
-- Posted by mule1993 on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 10:50 AM
Yes you do have to take everything into consideration, but head to head does play a bigger part into the discussion even your giving it credit for. Because lets face it, your playing in a tournament that features teams you've already played. Here is an example of how coaches view head to head games when it comes to seeding.
Coach Vaughan's and Coach Stewards comments after last nights Kennett/Doniphan game:
"It's got to impact it huge," Kennett coach Jim Vaughan said, when asked how the win would impact district seedings . "Charleston is going to be the No. 1 seed, rightfully so. Then you've got three teams - us, Caruthersville and Doniphan with solid records. Then New Madrid County Central who beat us, but lost to Doniphan earlier in the year. There are four teams right there that can beat each other. I'd like to think the head-to-head will play a part in it and we've got the edge there on two of them. We'll go in and hash it out Wednesday as coaches and everybody is going to vote where they feel they ought to. No matter where that lies it is going to be a fun district for all parties."
"If we win this game there is no doubt we get the No. 2 seed," Stewart said of Doniphan, which is ranked No. 4 in Class 3. "Now I don't know how it is going to play out. Anywhere from 2 to 5 is where I would say we would end up."
Pretty much sums up have important head to head matchups are.
-- Posted by I.P. Freely on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 10:51 AM
sideline starter...That's another good "common opponent" example that proves my point. That's why I take a lot of things into consideration in my arguement, not just head to head.
-- Posted by Wesman100 on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 10:52 AM
I.P. Freely ..I agree with what you're saying. I just don't believe "seedings" should be treated like the Super Bowl. One game for all the marbles.
Seedings are "coaches opinions" and those opinions should take everything into consideration.
Nuff said..I can't stay on here any longer. Good luck to all the teams no matter what happens. I will guarantee you all one thing. If we lose in the district tournament I will root for the team that beats us. It's always nice to say "it took the champion to defeat us"...hahahaha
Everyone have a great day.
-- Posted by Wesman100 on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 11:00 AM
We could argue all day about who deserves what seed but to ME, I think Kennett is just better than Doniphan and NMCC, although NMCC did beat them. Everyone has off nights. I just think Doniphan's record is a little deceiving IMO. Also, when healthy, I think Caruthersville is better than NMCC and Doniphan as well. As I said before, really it doesn't matter because the title goes through Charleston and all seeding does is delay one game with Charleston. Wesman I think you take everyone's opinion about Doniphan to personal. Just because they don't agree with you doesn't mean they are wrong. There is no right or wrong in this situation. The only thing that can be said is that if Doniphan had Kennett, or Cville's schedule, they would have a couple more losses, that's why their record is not as good as the Dons. I've beat the common opponent thing to death way to much on here.
Side note: Cville will be without Belton the rest of the season. Talked to his mom and she said he will not be able to play anymore! So Cville will not be getting their two big guys back this season but still should be a dangerous team, just not very tall lol
-- Posted by Cheesehead. on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 11:38 AM
Man Caruthersville has had some unfortunate luck this season. That too bad.
-- Posted by GSP on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 11:50 AM
Yeah but they will be okay. They will just play a smaller line-up using 4 guards and Monore. Not very deep though, so if they get in foul trouble, that could be all she wrote for Cville. That Doniphan game will be a tough one. We will have to make our shots on the first try bc second and third chance points will be hard to come against them. Should be a good game.
-- Posted by Cheesehead. on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 12:24 PM
Not taking anything personal. As I've said, all this chat this morning is opinions anyway. If we get seeded #9 you can rest assured I will not commit suicide. As far as scheduling is concerned. I remember reading a post a few weeks ago that was condemning us for not playing games in IL and TN and then went on to ask "where is Doniphan anyway".
-- Posted by Wesman100 on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 12:29 PM
Well that wasn't me. I know that Doniphan's location makes it hard for them to schedule out of state teams. Not their fault at all, it's just the way it is. We all can agree on that this district is pretty much about even, with the exception of Charleston. Just remember, on any night, any one of these teams can beat the other, even Charleston.
-- Posted by Cheesehead. on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 12:41 PM
If Dexter can only beat Cape, but i dont see that happening.
CAPE CENTRAL-78
DEXTER-39
-- Posted by 11TIMEST.CHMPS@BLUEJAYS on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 12:47 PM
Cheesehead..now that the seeding is set I'm not annoyed with a #3 seed. I was just laying out an arguement for the Dons being seeded #2. If all the coaches feel we should be a #2, so be it. After all, they should know more than us..at least they get paid for it. As you have said "all roads to the championship go through Charleston"
-- Posted by Wesman100 on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 4:14 PM
Will it be Cape or PB?
-- Posted by 11TIMEST.CHMPS@BLUEJAYS on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 4:26 PM
Dexter lost one of their players to a season-ending leg injury LU. They won't be beating anyone in the near future.
-- Posted by sideline starter on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 4:32 PM
Ouch!
-- Posted by 11TIMEST.CHMPS@BLUEJAYS on Wed, Feb 15, 2012, at 4:36 PM
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Well tonight was the last night of games before they seed the district. What's your seeding look like?
1.Charleston
2.Kennett
3.Doniphan
4.Caruthersville
5.NMCC
6.Bloomfield
7.Twin Rivers
8.East Prairie
Wish they would have waited another week because Cville still plays Doniphan and NMCC but it is what it is. Either way you look at it, you will have to get past Charleston.
Replies (42)